TO TELL A TALE: A special bonus conversation with Spenser talking about his debut album, 'Down and Out in Melbourne City.' Powerful words for all artists, and even more potent for those who feel some sort of way in Melbourne winter. An introspective look into the mind of the artist and how to portray nostalgia, the making and breaking of relationships, and the political state of Melbourne.
Firstly, how has it been since we last spoke? You said you were going to do some promo in the week after the album released.
To be honest, I actually haven't done a lot. I kind of didn't prepare this album, I just really wanted to just put it out. I really feel like the people that will check it out and the people that the album is important for, you don’t have to promo super hard to get them to listen to it. Just put it out. Post the right links and the people that resonate with it will find it. But in saying that I’m slowly putting together some stuff to promote it for the next couple of months, although that's crazy to say. It's going to be a slow growth. I feel I'm figuring out what content works, and what doesn't. I'd rather spend my time writing better songs and becoming a better musician. But you still do have to look at the promotion side of things.
I feel like we touched on it a bit last time we spoke in our interview, and we spoke about it on the day that your album released. You seemed really content with how it all played out. How did you come to terms with making that decision to release it in that way? And what changed from when you released The Impostor?
I just realised that music is so personal and it's not for everyone. Just because you have X amount of followers doesn't mean X amount of people will listen and resonate with the work. So I've kind of come to the conclusion that my music is not for everyone, but there's a certain group of people that are into what I make. I'm trying to figure out how to reach them opposed to trying to reach everyone. When I did my first couple singles, it was just absolutely shooting in the dark. It's still hard because I don't know exactly what I'm making, but with each release you get closer to figuring out what you are. And then the next step is once you know what you have is to find the people that like that. There's an element of just putting it out there so people find it and they might enjoy it.
Yeah, exactly. You might as well try, right?
It's pretty basic. I wish I had more resources, but I don't. And I still have to get better as a musician.
But obviously this whole philosophy for you isn't something that has just come about just for this project, right? It's something that you think of pretty strongly.
Yeah, yeah. Totally.
Was there a specific moment that you can pinpoint that you had that change of mind?
Not specifically. I think it's just naturally been growing in the direction of becoming an indie artist, but I don't want to be like that forever. It's kind of hard to explain with words, but I'm still figuring out so much about my own music. It's hard to package it as a product and promote it as a product, even though I do respect the importance of that. Especially for this album, I really stripped it back and went acoustic, and I really tried to write songs that are important to me. These are songs that I have been trying to write for a while. I thought it was more important for the music this time around.
The harmonica. That’s new.
I really wanted to strip everything back. I feel with a lot of music now, a lot of the great essence is lost because of production. And I mean that even with current folk records. A lot of them do sound good, but they don't have that dynamic quality. Everything feels very manufactured. I said to myself that I really wanted to strip it back, and it's literally just me and a guitar. I'll be real; that does kind of get a bit boring after a while. I have a couple of folk records and old records where it is just acoustic and a voice, and sometimes everything does sound the same. So the harmonica is another instrument I can add without going too over the top, and it really just brings a different flavor to the whole thing.
Would you ever think about adding anything like a piano, or similar?
Yeah, I do. But at this point in time, I don't really have the resources to make that sound right. You can throw it on top of the songs, but I don't really have the resources or the know-how to make that the sound that I want. Sometimes you have to be patient with it. It's pretty cliche, but less is sometimes more. I feel with all my past releases I've just done too much. Although they're cool, and I am very proud of them, I just have done too much. This body of work is a real statement for me. Just doing it with an acoustic guitar and doing it live in one take with no real overdubs. I thought that was important to do as a musician, with the take and whatever imperfections there may be. Let them stay on the record.
What I thought was pretty interesting that you told me was when you actually started writing the songs. That was pretty close to the release date.
Yeah. If I'd be real, I had ideas for a lot of those songs for a while, but I went away in January and then I got really sick in February and March. I was pretty much out for that point in time, and I finished the songs mostly in April and May. I pretty much wrote them, put them together, recorded it, and released it as soon as it was done.
I wanted to make the album over ten songs, but I wrote a bunch. I wrote heaps of songs and I have a bunch of outtakes, which would have fit on the album, but those eleven I thought were the good takes. I did them early on in the sessions. There isn't a huge narrative there, but there is a theme in all those songs. It all came very natural, and I didn't want to over engineer it. That was the whole mission statement for this whole thing. Don’t over engineer it.
I’ve seen the Substack as well recently, and you’ve been talking a bit about enriching a story, or just telling a story in general with your music. You sort of alluded to it just before, but what was your story for this album, and are they all from your own experience?
This album, generally, just comes from when I got really sick. It was hard. A lot of work passed me by, and I was just at home going a bit crazy in my bedroom. I put together all these songs from that experience and other experiences. A lot of this does come from my experience, but I would say those experiences are like a seed and the story you tell around that seed. It goes into a plant and makes it embellished. The experience is just a little start of the explosion.
As for telling a story, I really love albums that have a theme. In the modern age, especially with digital, it's way more economical and better to go single-by-single. I just love that idea of throwing an album out and all the songs show where an artist is in their life, and you really get a full picture. I feel this album totally captures me in this period of my life.
Well on that note, I think we should talk a bit about some of the songs. The first two I wanted to talk to you about was ‘Where I Held She’ and ‘What You're Doing With Your Life.’ Some of the lyrics are pretty relatable for a lot of people and is something most people or all people have experienced at some point in their lives. What have you got to say about that, and those two songs in particular?
100%. I guess one of the themes in this album is heartbreak- and not even necessarily heartbreak and being sad. It’s more about moving on after a relationship. It's so interesting, especially after a big relationship. Your life is so intertwined with someone else, and then it's not. A lot of those songs may come off as heartbreak or longing, but I think for me the most personal part about it is your life after being with someone. Where I Held She, in particular. You have a girlfriend who you have made a playlist for, and they have made a playlist for you and you still listen to that. They were a part of your old life, but they're still in your new life. There is a lot of aimless self-introspection and an element of being a bit aimless. From being with someone to not being with someone, and you're now kind of on your own.
Those songs in particular, they're not really engineered. They just came to me when I was f*cking around on the guitar. There was this melody, and that melody evoked that feeling and those songs were born. Those songs are pretty cosmic. They just come from deep within your subconscious.
And it's something that you write about, and you have to write about in hindsight because obviously when you're in the relationship, it's not something that you are going to anticipate will happen.
100%. You never think about it like that.
‘Brunswick East.’ This was the song were I got the feeling that it was a very Melbourne album. Courtney Barnett, she talks a lot about different landmarks in Melbourne, but a lot of the time in Australia in particular you don't really get artists talking about actual landmarks, like artists in Europe and America. All these places must be pretty close to heart for you.
That's something I've always wanted to do. When I was younger, I started loving a lot of American artists, and they'd always be talking about New York or LA. Billy Joel is always singing about New York, for example. I don't even really love them, but the best example is the Red Hot Chili Peppers- Californication. That gives them such an identity. And it’s the same with English artists like The Beatles with Penny Lane. They speak about so many of these landmarks, and then we're just over here in Australia consuming both English and American artists, but I feel we really lack our own self-identity.
100%, I agree.
I didn't really think about Courtney Barnett as well, but I remember being quite young and hearing her talk about High Street. That was so f*cking cool. In my eyes, she’s a great popular contemporary artist, and I can just go to the places she's talking about. I can just go there and experience that.
I think we hear these songs from America and England, and you hear them drop local suburbs and things. Obviously, you can't call that place like home or anything and you can't actually relate to what they're talking about.
I’m just surprised that us as young Australians, no one really cares. I want to say no one's into it, but we're just so bombarded by American and English culture. We have our own great culture. I feel like a lot of music out of Australia doesn’t have lyrical content that isn’t about Australia, and it’s even crazier when you get an Aussie band singing about something that feels so American. It really just goes back to that experience of hearing Courtney Barnett sing about Thornbury. I used to always drive past a street in Fitzroy called Rae Street, and she has a great song called Rae Street. I think she lives there and you can experience what these artists feel and that is what makes it so f*cking special. It sometimes feels like musicians and famous people aren’t in the world, but when something like that happens, you know those people are in our world. Courtney Barnett felt this way, walking down Rae Street in winter. I feel that now.
Same goes for amazing painters like Leonardo da Vinci. He painted all these beautiful people and places in Florence, and Saints from the Bible. Back then, people related to those things. Artists aren't just famous people who live in another world. I think it's cool when you see artists or people just like you in the songs that you listen to.
I want to talk to you about The Beatles as well. I listen to ‘Brunswick East’ and a lot of other songs on this album, but I guess the themes of this albums sort of reminded me of the stuff you'd normally find in an album like Help! or Abbey Road.
That's actually the best. I f*cking love early Beatles and I love when they did acoustic stuff.
Were they a big influence for you on this project?
No. The Beatles, subconsciously, are probably the biggest influence for me just because they’re just so influential and their catalogue is so diverse and crazy. I hate to say it, but I feel like they invented modern songwriting. I shouldn't just put it down to one group, but you hear music before them and it's very traditional folk. They absolutely turned it on its head.
But I love John Lennon's acoustic stuff, songs like ‘You’ve Got To Hide Your Love Away’ or ‘Hard Day's Night.’ I just love early Beatles. I reckon it's so good. People always give it sh*t and everyone's into all the psychedelic stuff, but the acoustic stuff really works fantastic.
‘Hard times in the city / Living out in Melbourne now / Mr. Premier be sitting in a corporate box / Politicians doing nothing but blaming us / Rents too high unless your parents help you pay / Waking up early to find yourself a job / Stay back late to show them that you love / They won’t pay you what they can / Till your boss drives home in a Mercedes Benz.’ You're obviously talking about politics here. I feel like this question should have gone in the last interview that we did, but now that it's brought up, it must be something you feel strongly about to put in your music. What are your thoughts on the state of Melbourne currently?
I know that sounds very pessimistic, but it's not all bad. It's a f*cking good city. But I felt compelled to comment on all that stuff because- and I’m just trying to be careful with what I say here- but there's just so much contradiction and stupidity with politics and the media. I know I'm just a young person, but it just feels pretty crazy. Everything that is going on with the property market coming out of COVID, just everything we enjoyed. There's so much contradiction and stupidity, and I don't like the theatrics of politics. It feels like it's a big theatre show without actually helping and trying to do good.
100%. I feel like most people would think the same, you know. Especially that line ‘Waking up early going to find yourself a job / Stay back late to show them that you love,’ where you might not actually love your job but you have to do it to pay for rent or whatever it is.
I love that line because it's in my life. I've worked so many crappy jobs and hard jobs because I thought it was the right thing to do. It's painted like you have to work super hard, but you get paid nothing. I think of how many people are in a workplace that makes them work extra hours. How many dodgy bosses don't give you breaks and don't follow through with their promises? In my life, and I haven't even worked a lot I've just worked here and there to get by, but I have worked with dodgy bosses and you feel how powerless you are as a worker.
You can't quit because then you have to go find another one, and the whole cycle repeats itself. I’m sure there’s an element about it as well about enjoying what you love but I’m sure that wasn’t the focus of this particular song.
Nah, there's totally an element of that. But I guess, yeah, it's a shame. You have to work and everything's so expensive that it is getting harder and harder to do the things that you love. Unless you're very privileged- and I guess that line about parents helping you pay was a bit of a jab- but that's what some people need.
My favorite line that I thought was pretty funny was ‘Old terrace house so cold you got to shiver / Makes you want to jump inside the Yarra River.’
That's probably my favorite as well. I love that rhyming scheme. That's another thing. I know so many friends who have moved out to these old houses that are just so cold, and you just need to endure. It's just so cold. I love when I came up with that, dropping the Yarra River in a song. I bet there are definitely old Aboriginal tribal songs that talk about the Yarra, but in modern times I doubt many bands are thinking about it.
Yeah, I get what you mean. And it's like the same thing- people in America would say, something about the Hudson River or similar, and people in Australia would know it just because they’ve been fed it so many times. But then people in America, when they hear Yarra, they'll be thinking, what is that? I spoke to Simon a bit and he also agreed that people don't really appreciate what they have here.
I feel like I'm not qualified to talk about it, but I think maybe it's just a human thing, like you're just never happy with what you have, that's true. I definitely have felt like that. But in making these songs, it’s given me a total new appreciation for how dope our Northern suburbs are, and how dope our landmarks are. I was like, ‘oh, I want to go overseas,’ but Melbourne is so cool. It's a privilege.
And on that note, I have a lyric here from ‘Hard Winter in July.’ When it gets dark at night / We hold on holding / For the friends / We made in this life / Forget the ones who chase / Overseas sun / Carry on / You always got someone. I think everyone gets a bit nostalgic around July, and I can see it in both this song and ‘Waiting by my Window.’ Are there any specific things you begin to get nostalgic for at this time or even people?
Yeah, when I wrote those songs I imagined sitting in my room upstairs on a rainy night, not really sure what to do. Do I go out? It's too cold. Those two songs are about sitting by the window watching the water or the frost on the windowsill on a July Winter’s night. That is the oldest song on this album. I had the idea for that last year, but I only finished it recently. That just came from that feeling of being dead in the middle of Melbourne winter. We're in Australia; not many people get winter in the middle of the year like that. It's just the idea of being a bit sad, but then you go to a warm pub with your friends and you have a couple of drinks, and you're asking your friends, ‘how do you feel?’ and ‘are you alright?’ ‘What's your love life like?’ Don't worry about that bad stuff; we're here tonight and we're having fun. I think that feeling of being in Melbourne and being out with your mates and you can forget about your troubles is so important to me.
It's nostalgic because I think back to last year. Good nights came from just being nice and close up with your friends having a few beers and getting warmed. It's a unique experience to us in Australia. Maybe even just Melbourne- because Sydney's warm and Queensland's warm. It's kind of like this just in Melbourne. I guess with, ‘Forget the ones who chase / Overseas sun,’ especially last year. So many people were travelling, and I ended up hanging out with the most random of people because most of my friends were overseas. But that was f*cking great. There’s that idea that you've always got someone.
Yeah, I'm sure. It’s like when you listen to a song that you were listening to at that time of your life last year. It's going to remind you of that feeling, you know.
100% man, 100%. I love that you brought that up.
I've got a few more here for you. OK, so this song ‘India,’ it's extremely interesting. It's probably my favorite on the whole album.
Yeah, it's crazy this song.
I think it fits perfectly in the context of this album. But also, I feel like it transcends a few genres, but I can't quite yet describe it. As the creator of the song, why do you think that is? As you said it’s a crazy song, so what makes it that?
Well, where do I start? I don't know. I originally recorded a lot of these songs with a live band, which led to some of these songs having a different rocky quality. But after I got sick, I was like f*ck that. I want to do it all acoustic. That particular song acoustic was is very revealing. I don't know- that that one is hard for me because it doesn't come from any direct experience. I can honestly remember sitting in my room and just strumming the chords, and I just wrote the thing and wrote the words. And it was done like that. It was pretty instant. But upon listening to it now, I just think, ‘Oh my God, that applies to so many different things in my life.’ It came to me and then revealed itself over time.
Yeah, I like that that because sometimes it doesn’t quite sit with you in the first listen, and when you come back to it, it definitely grows on you.
And that absolutely true of writing my own songs. I'll write and think, ‘I love that.’ But then you come back and adjust it and it turns into, ‘oh, wow, that really is something.’ That song specifically, just came and went. I wrote it in a short period of time, and maybe subconsciously that came from experience. Those chords evoked a feeling, and that evoked the words, and that evoked a melody. It was very subconscious, and it came from the deepest level.
Beautiful. I love that sentiment, and that song in particular along with ‘What You’re Doing With Your Life’ and ‘Brunswick East.’
I'm really glad because yeah, there's a couple of themes in this album, but it kind of boils down to being a kid in Melbourne and hearing what's on the news, being out and about, and making and breaking relationships. It comes from a place of just being a young aimless person, and I know it’s very raw, but I’m just so happy that I captured that. It's like a cool time capsule of my life and these past couple of years.
Do you have any songs on the album that are the most important to you, or any favourites that capture the album well?
Probably. I really love ‘Hard Winter in July.’ I love its sentiment. It's the whole tone of the album- it's a cold winter, and it's not the best conditions, but you always have a couple mates around the corner that can talk with and have some fun.
If I had to boil it down to literally three themes of this album, it would be about being in Melbourne during winter, making and breaking relationships as you grow and just hearing all the f*cked up things politicians are doing and the contradiction and stupidity of the media, while you're out here making your own decisions. It comes down to those three things for me, but it’s going to be about what you find most important as well.
Wrapping up here, I got a couple more questions for you. The first one of the two is what were your biggest influences for this album?
So, to be honest, I wrote The Impostor and wrote Australialand and I thought, ‘sh*t, I really like need to perfect my songwriting.’ Sometimes the chords are a bit weird, or a melody didn’t work as well as I wanted it to. I wanted to get my songwriting up to scratch, and so I went back and just started learning a lot of old traditional folk songs. It's so easy with Spotify, you just find a playlist and there's old Blues songs from America. There are old Celtic songs from the Irish, and there's even old English drinking songs. My ear became gravitated to the to those songs, because they're just bulletproof. They're perfectly written. The melodies of these old Celtic folk songs are just f*cking crazy. So I've been listening to a lot of that. There’s this dude named Mississippi John Hurt. He's a bit bluesy. This guy named Stephen Foster. He's an old American songwriter. And then honestly, listening to a lot of traditional albums where they don't even know who wrote these songs. A good example is ‘House of the Rising Sun.’ That’s a traditional kind of ballad. A lot of those go back to the original versions. It's beyond The Beatles and Bob Dylan and The Beach Boys and Simon and Garfunkel. I really tried to go deep and discover the history of songs.
A lot of great artists do that as well. They don't go for the most conventional songs as a reference; like they go looking.
Yeah, I found some absolute gems and the defining thing is the reason those songs are perfect is because they existed before recorded music. They were passed down from generation to generation. If it was a bad song and it didn’t catch you, they would have just forgotten it. But because these songs are so perfect and so good, they've probably been around for hundreds of years.
Good. Last time I did an interview with you I asked for your words of wisdom, but today I’m going to ask what's the biggest thing you've learned in this album and what’s next for you?
To be honest, I don't think I have it in me to answer that, just because it's still so fresh and it's still coming together in my mind. It's too hard to answer at this point, what the biggest thing I’ve learnt is. It's still coming in my mind, but I would just say keep going out and getting experience; and just loving people. I'm pretty sure I said that last time!
We can put that again, it's an important message.
That's it. And as for what's next, I just want to keep making albums. Better and better every time. More topical as well- just keep carving out the Australian identity. I mean, it's documented, but it especially needs to be done in Melbourne in particular. I just think it's cool. Anyone can listen to that and just know that place. That's something that's really special to me.
OUR FAVOURITES: Brunswick East, What You're Doing With Your Life, India
Comments