In Conversation with Roman Anastasios. An interview with one of Melbourne's finest filmmakers and close collaborator with the formidable Observe Gallery, completed pre-Olympics. We sat down and spoke to Roman about the filmmaking philosophy, high jump, and his many hats over the years.
RA: Is it going to be a hard-hitting question?
CF: Nah, the first question is the sort of one where you introduce the person. Is this the first interview you’ve done?
Outside of school, probably. We did a lot of it at university- lots of face to face and stuff.
FA: With both your parents being an author and the other a screenwriter, did they inspire you to go into this line of work?
They are! Whoa.
CF: Meaghen and Andrew, is that right?
Yeah, my mum and dad. Good start boys, you got me. My mum and dad- Andrew and Meaghen- I’m very lucky that my dad transitioned into the film industry around 2010, and one day he decided he wanted to start scriptwriting as a job. He had a story he wanted to tell about my great grandfather. I don’t know if you guys have heard of it- it’s called The Water Diviner?
FA: With Russell Crowe?
Yes, that’s right- it was a massive whirlwind at the time, and it’s the same since he started scriptwriting. I've been very lucky. I grew up throughout school with the opportunity to go on sets, was dragged along to see massive crews, things like that. I was half the height at the time and seeing them operate these massive cameras and actors you see on TV and stuff. So I was definitely in it from an early young age, for sure. I think as any kid kind of does when they have parents in certain industries, I feel like there’s a little period of time where you’re in denial and I think that definitely happened towards the end of school for me. I kind of went, ‘ok, this is the obvious option, but what else is there for me?’ There was also sport at the time which I thought I could go into professionally, but ultimately, I ended up full circle and going, ‘you know what, I’ve done this for so long now, it’s second nature.’ So yeah, it kind of fell into place a bit, but I'm just lucky to drop into something where a lot of people might think is sort of untouchable. Film industries feel so far away- like look at Hollywood, it feels like the other side of the world and it’s hard to go off and see how it actually happens and how it is possible to make it in that industry. I’m very blessed.
CF: Was it something that your parents tried to lean you in towards when you were a kid?
If you knew my parents, you would know they couldn’t have given a sh*t with what I chose to do with my life, which I’m very grateful for. I think that flexibility also meant that I was enticed to see what the whole life is about. Because they didn't push me in any direction, I was like, ‘oh, there must be a reason that they're doing this.’ And yeah, I know so many people who have parents who force them one side. I will say though that even though they haven’t pushed me in any direction, I’ve definitely sometimes sat here wondering if I’ve been a bit brainwashed, because if you saw my whole house it’s full of archaeology, and artefacts, and sculptures, and movie posters, and it feels like a movie set.
FA: Do they ever help you with your current films and stuff?
They're actually away at the moment! They're off working overseas, so not at the moment. But if I ever have roadblocks or something I’ll always ask them. I like to think my dad is one of wisest people I know. I loop up to him and the way he tell stories. You know, it’s like when you’re young and sitting around the table and you always think your dad is the funniest guy ever. I still think that. I think the problem is a lot of the work I’m doing now is not something that they know too well about. They’re into their historical stuff- they were both archaeologists, so they’re into Indiana Jones and Jurassic Park. They love that, while I’ve found myself going more into fashion.
CF: I saw something about a TV series called Loot. What were you doing in that?
Yeah. You’ve seen my IMDB haven’t you? That was a show my mother wrote. During uni, I noticed we weren't doing any work experience- it was a lot of practical stuff. I grew up seeing how sets would work and how scripting works, so I asked my mum and dad if there were any projects that I could experience and actually work professionally on instead of sitting back and watching. It was lucky because my mum at the time was creating this show and she said I could do a bit of research on it if I wanted to. So I did a few bits of research on a couple of those episodes, and that was my first screen credit. I’m so grateful for the opportunity. And again- I’m so blessed. A lot of people don’t have access to that. That one was more in their field of the whole concept of artefacts and stuff. It’s very up my parent’s alley. If I was writing something today, I probably wouldn’t go down that path. But it was a great opportunity to see how everything functioned, and just seeing the whole process or research before doing anything goes to screen. Good research on that one.
FA: I feel like one of my favourite things about your work is the emotion that is displayed, and in a bit of a saturated market where many filmmakers are probably clamouring to make videos for people it seems like this differential is what makes your work different. What would you say was your big break, or was there ever a time where it ‘clicked’ in regards to showing that emotion?
That's a very, very good question. I think the thing I like to rely on most- and you hear this with a lot of filmmakers- but a lot of our work is actually about how much we rely on intuition and rely on our instruments and our capabilities. It takes a lot to rely on that, and in your early age, I feel like you have so many distractions as a young 20-year-old. There are so many visceral distractions on a day-to-day basis and it’s hard to really tune in and go, ‘what is my gut telling me?’ or, ‘what’s the right thing I should be doing?’ I think that’s something I’ve always been very lucky with, and again it’s probably something I’ve grown up with. Trust the feelings that come naturally to us and break down emotions to a really guttural level, if that makes sense. I think that’s something that has only really started to come to my films this year though, I’d say. The process of making a film is so long and drawn out. There’s so many steps, and I think you can lose that instinctual nature at various stages. The more that you can hold on to that feeling, I think the more it adds to the end result. I think back to a few projects from this year, and I think the one that I probably am most proud of achieving that particular feeling was Fluff.
CF: That’s the one that we wanted to talk to you about as well.
So with that one, I took more control over decisions and I got a lot of time to be able to make those decisions. It's so much easier as a filmmaker when you get time from a client. Erica, the brand owner, gave me a lot of time to make decisions that were right for the film. It's a luxury that I’m very, very lucky to have.
CF: Someone we know that said the exact same- I don't know if you know him, but he's probably taken photos of you in the past- Jacob Gower.
No way. When did you meet Jacob?
CF: Ages ago. He would’ve been one of our first interviews.
I was texting him other day. That's crazy. My God, that's insane.
CF: He said the exact same thing about intuition and trusting instincts.
Oh 100%. Actually, I think if we could just strip logic, I would want to do that. I just think the more that you hold on to instinct, as Jacob said, I think the results speak for themselves.
CF: Yeah. That's crazy that you know Jacob as well. He’s a great guy and always been very supportive.
I don’t know him personally, but he’s always taking photos. And I think as a photographer instinct is super important as well. It’s hard to explain, but Jacob’s style is very natural, sort of ‘doco’ style, almost like you’re shooting live events in front of them. So they really have to trust their gut- where am I? Who am I capturing? There’s a lot of things that would come into play like that.
CF: But his work is crazy. It’s great to see him do well.
He’s getting up there as well- I think he’s in Monaco doing the Diamond League.
CF: Well about Fluff, I was a bit confused about that one. So, what was that one actually about? I saw it was a short story. Did you write that one up?
Well yeah, look, it was called a short story. What you saw was kind of what it was. It was a 90-second video, and it was about following the lead actress throughout the day. Nothing super special. Again, we tried to strip back and create something very aspirational with lots of volumes that people could relate to as well. It was basically about the perfect day in Melbourne, and I think we called it a short story on social media.
CF: But I think there was also a huge caption. Did you help write that one?
So, the co-founder and I collaborated on that piece. Again, she's incredible with word play. The way she writes and the way she communicates is incredible. So again, it was a collaborative post that we both worked on. We were toying around with making a dialogue at certain points, but I think we liked how it felt a bit slower and how the viewer could read while they watched the video. Simple, again. It was simple, but I also like to think it was effective.
FA: When we speak to people who are in the fashion industry or jewellery industry, they have the ability to release whenever they want on their own accord. But in filmmaking it’s a bit more difficult as you have to wait for the clientele to come towards you. Has it ever been an issue in the past and are you concerned about that? You’re pretty established now, but did you ever face that issue?
Do you mean more with work?
CF: Yeah. Because I think Dyl makes a lot of videos for Instagram and stuff, but that's might not be the biggest money-making venture, but he also does commissioned work too. Is that something that you were ever concerned with?
For sure. I think when I was most concerned about it was probably 18 months ago. I was finishing up on university, and we had to make a big short film for our last year project. I was sitting there at the start of third year going, well, we’re going to make this film, but what’s next? So I sat down and thought, ‘I’ve got a lot of time, in reality.’ I know where I want to be in a few years, but I’ve got a lot of time now. That's when I started doing work. People weren’t coming to me to direct things, but I’ve got so much stuff to show what my work might look like. There was a 3-month period where I wasn’t getting work, but I was trying to make work for myself. I remember that time period was very tumultuous. You’re finishing uni, and if this stuff doesn’t work, how do you make it? So yeah, there was a period where I had to go and try and make things happen a bit. I'm lucky now. I'm not having to do as much just because it's like a momentum thing. I’m sure Dyl has explained it, but one job turns into three more, and two of them might not work but you’ve still got that one. You're pitching for things a lot as well, I’ve found. I don’t know if you guys know about the pitching crisis.
CF: No- but do explain though.
Yeah, it's just funny. In the commercial world there's a lot of opportunity to pitch to work and you can get approached for stuff. But you know, it’s a lot of time spent, and you might not necessarily be guaranteed work. That’s a new experience I’ve found this year as well to navigate. There’s probably been a few times this year where I’ve spent two weeks really thoroughly preparing for a job and then they’ve gone in another direction, and that’s been an interesting one because again, if you have your own brand or your own fashion label, you can just do what you want, when you want, as opposed to trying to mould the vision around something that already exists.
FA: How do you deal with that? When you put all that work in 2 weeks and someone goes in another direction, what happens then?
Throw a lot of sh*t! Rip up some scripts maybe. Jokes aside, I like to think it’s all part of life and experience, right? I think it takes something like that to happen to then really appreciate the next job that comes through. You almost need it in a way. Instead of just thinking that you’re doing it all for luxury, I want to do this because I want to go on with my career.
You you almost need it if that makes sense, like if they're just being all just the luxury like I I mean to do this because I wanted to run my career. So yeah, I feel it's all part of life.
CF: On TikTok stuff as well, I feel like there was a TikTok of yours that went super viral.
Yeah. It was the biggest shock. See, that would be the flip side of sh*t not going well. When you open your phone, and everyone's seen something you've made. It's a great feeling. There’s a lot of stigma around TikTok, especially in the film industry.
CF: That would’ve been similar to the interview that we did with Jasper [Mutimer]. I opened my phone after an hour and thought someone had put bots on there or something.
He’s got that effect. And it’s a good feeling, right? It’s the same thing. You know, it’s affirmation I guess, because it shows you’re going in the right direction, interviewing people like Jasper. It’s a great opportunity for you guys.
CF: The thing is though; I feel like in a way there’s not really a market. People don't read anymore. They’d rather watch a video or listen to people do a podcast, but they don't actually want to read. I know there are people who do read, though.
I feel like reading is coming back. There’s a life cycle on everything. People get sick of screens and blue light trauma, and everyone goes paperback.
CF: Oh, 100%. I had that happen to me.
Oh for sure. I was actually really happy, I was only on my phone two hours average this week.
CF: That’s really good.
I know, normally it’s like f*cking 7 hours or something. It’s bad. When you’re working a lot you’re not on your phone. Even right now. I feel like when you’re with other people it’s just easy to enjoy life, but when you’re at home doing uni work and stuff it’s so easy to get distracted.
CF: Alright, so we might stop from the filmmakers chat for a bit. And firstly, congratulations on coming second in Oceania for the high jump. To be honest, I knew you first from the filmmaking stuff and not the athletics.
Yeah, good. I try to keep it that way... I'm joking!
CF: But what's it like balancing it?
Oh mate. It's been really difficult this year.
CF: Yeah, Olympic year and everything.
Yeah, it's funny. It's been a funny few weeks for sure. I did high jump during school. I think a lot of people in the industry or those doing creative things, everyone has a sort of release, right? I think every cinematographer or every director you meet, they’ll either do cycling, rock-climbing or marathon running. I guarantee. It’s just weird that I have my little niche hobby in the high jump. And yeah, this year obviously I wasn’t doing uni anymore, so it made training a lot easier. In January I had a few results go my way, and then one thing led to another and suddenly it’s July. Anyway, it’s been a funny few weeks for sure. Unfortunately, just missed out on the Olympic team.
CF: But how is it dealing with that sort of thing? Because you finished second in Oceania.
Yeah. Well, I finished second in Oceania, but politics man, politics. Despite that result I’m still ranked fourth in Australia.
CF: That's crazy that there's four Australians in the top 30 in the high jump.
It’s crazy. The field is deep in high jump. It's just a shame. Not to out myself or anything, but I was trying to do a last minute switch to represent Greece. If I was from any other country I'd be going, but it’s just lucky for Australia and unfortunately for me that Australia is the best jumping country in the world.
It’s been kind of a blur. I think it's been a week since we found that. I'm very lucky because I know a lot of other people who missed out doing the sport full-time or it’s their entire life. I say this, and I say it to comfort myself a bit, but it’s a hobby. I was lucky to be in that position anyway. Right now, I've just been comforting myself in the film side. It’s always a balancing act, though. One thing is going well, and the other thing might not be. It’s still kind of raw. It would be great to be sitting here and thinking, ‘oh, I’m an Olympian,’ but you know, I’ve made decisions that mean it’s not possible.
CF: Yeah, but I assume you're going to use that as motivation for LA?
Yeah, and I guess now I have to start taking that side of things a bit more seriously. Instead of 80% film and 20% high jump, I might change it to 60/40 or something. The crazy thing is when you’re spending all day on your feet on the film set and then trying to train, you’re making sacrifices whether you like it or not. Just gotta get better at fitting the two together, because they clash a bit, for sure.
CF: But just of general interest, what's it like training for high jump? I assume it's a lot of time in the gym.
Yeah, I’m going after this! It depends where you are in the season. If you’re competing, less gym, if you’re competing, way more gym. It’s all about staying as fresh as possible, which is why standing up on your feet all day and filming is really bad. It takes it out of your legs. My coach’s favourite saying is sometimes less is more. It’s not like the marathon where you need a massive base. It’s more about how reactive you are.
CF: It’s definitely a sport that’s not very well documented. But at the last Olympics, Tamberi and Bashar.
Oh my god. That definitely put it on the map for sure. This one should be interesting for sure. I actually don’t know who’s going to win this one.
CF: I'm a big fan of Tamberi for sure. He’s at the top of his game, but you can see he’s still so passionate about it, which is crazy.
He’s a character. I kind of wish I was born in Italy, because you can see his confidence in his own ability, and I think that attitude is something we don’t have here. You know what I mean?
CF: Have you ever thought of going to the Diamond League or anything? Or maybe the European tour?
Yeah. Yeah, look, all of that kind of stuff only started to come in with reality this year. I think the goal is in 12 months to maybe have a look at it.
CF: I feel like you took a break between 2020 and 2022 as well, is that right?
Well, yeah man, I did. I did my knee at the end of 2019, just before COVID. And COVID hit, and I get distracted very easily. That’s why I like films, because there’s a lot of stuff going on. COVID came and went, and I was sort of sitting here with my film degree and I kind of lost love for the sport completely. Two years went by in my film degree, and I was doing no sport or anything. I felt a bit off, like a part of my function was missing. Out of the blue in 2022, two years ago, I got a text from my coach. He texted and said, ‘hey, where are you? What’s going on?’ Looking back on it I’m grateful.
CF: That’s crazy. It’s like a wink from God.
Yeah. It was a sign, for sure. I'm a big believer in things happening for a reason. I stopped high jump for a while, so I could find the love of film, and then it came back into my life in a time that was tough. I’m a big believer in winks from God.
CF: But speaking on the falling out of love with things, I’ve seen you used to be a crazy talented footballer as well.
Ohh my God. Dude’s done his digging.
CF: How did the high jump eventually win out? Because you said earlier you were thinking of going in to a couple of different sports.
That's crazy. That's a crazy find. Well, on the note of everything happening for a reason, a few things happened out of my control, including the knee injury in year 11, that meant I got ruled out of a few really important things in football. I think a big thing for me, playing team sport, I really enjoyed doing it when I was younger and doing it for the love. I found as you got more serious, my desire to show up really went out the door and it wasn’t something that I could control. I really wanted to be better, but the love wasn’t there. It kind of meant that I didn’t have to make the tough decision. At the time I wanted to be a photographer, and I was toying it up with high jump. I was just thinking I could travel the world and take photos, and that’s what I knew in my heart that I wanted to do. But you know, football especially is sort of really enticing. When you’re a young kid, footy gets put on a massive pedestal, especially in Melbourne. I had a lot of nights just thinking if that was the right decision but I can sit here confidently now and be happy the way that things played out the way they did.
CF: There’s photos of you on the internet still with Jason Horne-Francis and Jamarra Ugle-Hagan, and people like that.
No way. That’s crazy, you’ve gone digging. That’s crazy. The fact that I have that Jason Horne-Francis one saved in my camera roll because I’ve sent it to a mate as a joke before because he didn’t believe I’d done things like that. I think I’ve lived a few lives and so it’s hard. Some people just don’t understand that. You guys pulled out the Jason Horne one, that’s so funny. How the frick did you find that one?
CF: Let's go back to the filmmakers talk. I've got a few more questions, not many, but what do you think is the mark of a good creative? Or a good filmmaker, or photographer?
Yeah. So, I guess we go back to trust and intuition, but also, I think something I'm trying to learn a lot more of is knowing what the client wants. I think there’s so much freedom and creativity that when you’re directing or shooting, I think the biggest thing I’ve realised is your biggest downfall is walking up to the set and not understanding the purpose of the decisions you’re making and knowing exactly what you’re trying to achieve.
A creative can walk into a space with integrity and a really firm position on what they want to create and what they want to achieve. It’s like a framework, I think. If they have really good boundaries that they can create within, I think that's number one. I think that's the recipe for a good creative. There’s like a million other things there, but that’s the main thing. That’s the most relevant to me right now. Especially when you’re working with a lot of people, the ability to be able to rock up and go ‘this is what we’re doing here.’ There might be something else that pops up, because that’s a massive question.
FA: Well, this one, is a bit of a two-part question. Do you have any favourite films or works that you use for inspiration?
So many. So many. What are your favourites? Or does it change?
CF: I really liked Call Me By Your Name. I mean, going back to filmmaking, it's shot so well. And the audio, the way it sounds, I've never heard that in a movie. Everything feels like it's actually happening. It's crazy.
It’s visceral right? But would you say that every time, or would you say it changes? I feel like it changes.
FA: Yeah. It changes.
I’ll have to check it out on Letterboxd. What about you?
FA: Well, I sort of like war movies, so I love 1917 a bunch.
Yeah. Amazing. So it would sense if I said Apocalypse Now, then.
CF: Oh wild. That's the same one that Jasper said.
No. Did he really say that? I can't say that now. He can't say that! Put that in the record, I wanted to say Apocalypse Now, but Jasper already said that. That's so annoying. I would not pick that. He fully said Apocalypse Now?
CF: He really said that. He said a lot of his clothes are so inspired by that movie.
What? By a wartime film, of the Vietnam War?! I’m going to go back and look at that. That makes me angry.
Whenever I’m in doubt with this question, I always go back to what was a film that I watched, and then afterwards I say that I want to be a director, or I want to be a part of making this stuff. I think the earliest one I saw that opened my eyes and lit the fire was Children of Men. Oh my goodness, incredible film. It’s like a dystopia where everyone has stopped having children, and everyone is infertile. And so suddenly the purpose of humanity comes to the question, ‘what are we doing here if we can’t reproduce?’ I think it’s so powerful on so many levels because I think at its core it tells us what the f*ck we’re doing here, right? It tells us why we are here.
FA: I feel like that's pretty relevant because the birth rate as a whole is going down a bunch. It’s crazy how fast it’s going down.
It's a crazy thing, and we have infrastructure that can't be sustained. I remember seeing this, and something I’ve carried a lot is the camera work. The cinematography is probably the most beautiful you’ll ever see. They created sets, and it might be the most effective dystopia. I think a lot of the time things get glamourised and there’s a lot of sci-fi, like Blade Runner. Don’t get me wrong, I love Blade Runner, but this felt so real. No spoilers, but the first scene is a group huddled around the TV and they hear about the death of the youngest child. The 18-year-old passes away, and that’s the youngest child. Everyone is clinging onto hope, and the lead character walks out and it explodes. It’s not a glamourised future, and I don’t want to say we’re heading towards something like this, but I remember watching it and thinking this is what authentic filmmaking is.
CF: Yeah. In the same vein, the one that I thought that had that real authentic feel was The Blair Witch Project. It’s shot brilliantly.
Oh my goodness. A bunch of young kids made that- young in a film sense. The thing that always comes to mind about that film is the budget as well. It’s just highly effective filmmaking. I think that style of horror is a great entry into feature films.
I think we’re in a weird era, where I think particularly the biggest filmmakers have been pigeonholed a lot. You look back 50 years ago, and you look at the filmography, even in something like Scorsese and what they were doing when they were twenty. They were making tens of films a year, just amazing stuff. That whole Raging Bull era, they were just making whatever the hell they wanted. I feel like now we’re really conscious of the perception of our work, but we like creating less. Dylan’s on that train as well, just creating. Creating more.
CF: Yeah. Well, he's got a movie coming this year.
He said it was coming in January! I’ve been waiting. So annoying.
FA: Just moving forward with new projects, where would you see yourself in 10-15 year’s time?
I don't know and that's exciting. I could be a real estate agent, or I could be working in a medical practice. You never know. I like thinking about long term goals, but I think ten is probably pushing it a bit more. I’m just trying to enjoy living in the moment, and the process. If you asked me maybe a year ago, I would’ve said, ‘I want to be directing big Hollywood films,’ or something cringe like that. But I don’t know. It feels like the way to fall in love with something more is to fall in love with the process.
CF: I feel like that's something that athletics teaches you really well. Doing the small things day by day that add up.
You're spot on. I've had this thought a lot recently because four years ago, I wasn't doing sport. I wasn't doing aths. And if I had sat down four years ago and said I'm going to try and make the Olympics, I would be probably in a much different position. I'll be in a much better position as opposed to doing things at the last minute. So I think while my goal is to make movies that people want to watch, whether that’s in Hollywood or whether that’s in Brunswick, it doesn’t really matter. I think as long as I can make something of the stories that I want to tell, I’ll be happy. Again though, if I’m doing something completely different in ten years, God knows. I’ll be content with that. I think in years I’m still loving what I’m doing every day, I’ll be happy with that.
FA: Lovely. We have this playlist where we ask our guests to add a couple of songs they’ve been recently listening to, so if you had a couple that you could add, go ahead.
Wow. I love that. That’s the coolest thing ever. I think number one at the moment for me is a song by Loyle Carner. We tried to shoot his show in Melbourne, but it didn’t work out. I still love him though. We have a song that’s extremely special to us and has been for about 12 months. At the time we were sitting in university, 12 hours a day in the hole writing out our final year film. I think we resonated with that because it helped our perspective a lot, and that song is A Lasting Place. This one takes me back to the hole of uni, but also helps me keep perspective.
Because I'm a bit of a freak, I like listening to music from films and TV soundtracks. I've finished Succession recently, so that'll be funny one to have- Succession (Main Title). That that gets you up in the morning. That gets you to work. This is a great one- I worked with this musician recently and I've listened to this song of his probably 500 times, but I'm still in love with it. Lilo, by Chris Lanzon. I worked with him at the start of the year and we’re still working together. But this song, when you’re doing music videos and stuff, you normally fall out of love with something quick. But this one, timeless.
For aths relevance, I have to mix it up a bit, because when you’re working out a bit, the new Gunna album has been alright. Probably Hakuna Matata off that. I’m giving you the most random sh*t ever. I was just in New York, so another movie song is off the Metro Boomin soundtrack for it, Self Love, but they’re all good. And another one I’ll put in there is I Want, by Mk.gee. He’s very obviously the next big thing. Every musician wants to be like him, every music video wants to look like what he’s creating right now.
FA: Wrapping things up, is there any words of wisdom you have, things to promote, or people to shoutout?
Go follow Observe Gallery! No, no, no, no. Patience. Eight years might feel like a long time for you, but it’s not. If you're trying to get into film, or if you're trying to create a career that could have a lasting impact, I think patience is the best thing you can learn. Personally, I still want to still be directing films when I'm 80. You see, Ridley Scott and some of those freaks still directing at 85, and I don’t know if I want be doing that, but you know, if you’re going to spend another 60 years or so in a career, you’ve got to be patient. Everyone's trying to move really quickly nowadays, but just trust your gut and trust that you will be able to make the right decisions. In a very fast world, we have to learn to slow things down.
On the note of patience, I think in all seriousness, Observe Gallery. I've done a lot of work with Observe in the last 12 months, and I think they are the most lowkey or the most underrated startup label at the moment. They're not doing things like TikTok and they're not going crazy on Instagram reels, and I think they're not getting the love they deserve. So yeah, I'll use my 15 seconds here to give them a shoutout. Because yeah, I think in a world where everything is moving very quickly, they’re doing things right.
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