A pair of Alphaflys. A pair of split shorts. A pair of podcast co-hosts. All good things come in pairs, so after our interview with Joel Tobin-White, we had to try and have a conversation with Brett Robinson. An Olympic finalist and co-host of For The Kudos, Brett also holds the Australian record in both the half-marathon and marathon. We recently spoke to Brett about being a runner from ACT, some of his favourite songs and influences, as well as an up-and-coming teammate of his.
The first question I have, just to set the scene and give some background to the audience that may not be familiar with running. Before you started the marathon, you were a track athlete. Why did you decide to switch to the marathon and longer distances?
I guess when I was a track athlete, I was always good at long runs and threshold runs. The longer distance I enjoyed training for, a lot more than the fast and hard track sessions. I always thought the natural progression for me would be to go up into the marathon. I trained with Ryan Gregson when I was young, and he would always say that he thought I was going to be a great marathon runner. He was the first person that put it in my head and that seed just grew.
I didn't feel like I was getting slow on the track, but I wanted to go to the marathon before my body was starting to struggle. I think a lot of people go, ‘Oh, I'm not fast enough for the 1500m anymore, I'll go to the 10km.’ Then they think they aren’t fast enough for the 10km anymore, so they go to the marathon. I still went when I felt like I was running my best. I thought that was the best time for me to go to the marathon.
Before then though, you were playing soccer, for the Belwest Foxes Soccer Club. Do you still think you can make in the A-League?
That’s funny. When I used to say I could make it in the A-League, that was probably about ten years ago, when the league was a bit newer. I think the level has got a bit better, but I reckon I could have made it.
I was always up front or on the right wing because I was always a quick and fit kid. That was the position where you run a fair bit, so I was playing there. But yeah, I played for Belwest but then I was playing for the Canberra Academy as well. For the first two years that I was in it, we didn’t actually play games. It was just a higher-level training, development program. I think now the system is a bit different and there are more pathways, but that was one of the first little pathways for progressing in soccer. But at the same time, that’s when I started running.
Was there ever a time in high school that you thought you should go back to soccer or stick with running?
I played soccer up until I was about 16, but started running maybe when I was 13. So I had a couple of years of doing both at the same time, but then I think it became more of a friendship thing. I became better friends with the people I was running with, and that's what made me fall out of love with soccer a bit. Once I was into running, I was fully into it. Never really thought about going back to soccer.
You must have been pretty decent because I saw on the website that you won the MVP for Under 11s!
Wow. That's so funny. I think it was just that I was a fast kid. I think at that age, it definitely helped to have my running ability.
Is it true that in 2012, you were denied by the ACT Academy of Sport?
For running? Yeah, it is… I applied for it, but didn’t get in. ACTAS, it was called. To be honest, I was also denied in 2016 by Athletics Australia, and that was after making an Olympic final as well. The funding system and the support network is pretty complicated, and it doesn't make sense a lot of the time.
It’s difficult for them to put money into running. Even within athletics, distance running is a sport where it's hard for them to see medals, whereas something like pole vault or walking that is more technical, they can put money into. I guess through history, we’ve been a bit better at those events, so they put more money into that.
Obviously, everyone sees you now running crazy times and paces, but I guess back then no one really saw the work you were doing behind the scenes. Would you say early in your career, you were counted out a bit?
I think being from ACT you get counted out and forgotten about a little bit. Especially at a young age if you're from NSW or Victoria, they're racing each other all the time, and then out of nowhere, there’s some random kid from ACT coming up. You definitely can be forgotten about a little bit.
Well, with that in mind, what's happening here?
Wow. This was at 2012 Melbourne Track Classic, I’m pretty sure. I like that I’m in at the $101.
That was one of my first 5km’s. I think it was only my second 5km right. I was a bit behind the mark compared to Collis and the other guys, but they were a lot better than me. $101 is a pretty harsh price, though!
Where are the rest of the guys now? We know Collis, and Craig Mottram used to coach cross country at my school, so I know him. I know Dave McNeil too, but where are the others?
So Ben St Lawrence is doing some ultra-running now. He was really good- he ran 27:24 for 10km and he held the Australian record for a bit. Jake Robertson is a New Zealander who lives in Kenya. His brother just got caught with EPO a couple months ago. Ben True, he's an American. I don't know if he’s still running. Nick McCormack has retired. Will Leer has retired. Harry Summers has retired. Andy Vernon has retired. Well, to be honest, it's only me, Jake and Dave that are still running. Everyone else is retired. I hope I wouldn't be $101.00 now against them!
Alright, let's take a little break from the questions. I've got a few quotes here, and I don’t know how good your memory is. But I've got an undisclosed number of quotes by you, and then I've got an undisclosed number of quotes by Jack. I don't know if you've seen that Kipchoge video where he had to guess the quotes between Kelly Clarkson and himself, so all you have to do is tell me who said it: Robinson or Rayner. (Full video can be found on our Instagram.)
‘One day, I'll have as many… if not more tattoos than Wiz Khalifa.’
Wow. I think I must have said that. I just know I must have said it because Jack only started getting tattoos 18 months ago. He has a lot now, but he only got all of them recently, whereas I've had them for 15 years.
‘Smac that all on the floor’
I’m going to say Jack.
‘I was thinking at a point during the final lap how good it would look on Strava if I won.’
This is a tough one. Jack?
‘Ladies, let me introduce you to Stewie Mac. He just ran 13:19 for 5km, and if his third leg is anything like his other two, he is a real catch.’
I think that was me. Oh, that's funny. I remember doing that.
‘My least favourite movie of the year is the Maze Runner. I thought it was a running movie. It was not.’
Jack?
‘If you've got a good enough rig, go tops off!’
I think that was me.
‘Hopefully Harry Styles puts up an Instagram of our matching tattoos. That would have to get me some new followers for sure.’
Yeah, that was me. Harry Styles and I have the same tattoo!
Speaking of tattoos, what is your favourite?
That’s a good question. Probably my favourite, which is my first tattoo, is a 1UP mushroom from Mario. I've got it on my butt. It’s still there, so if I ever need to use it, I can. The most recent one I got was actually a year ago pretty much. It’s scorpion on my arm.
I don't say I regret any tattoos, but I’d say as time passes, I think I could do it a bit different.
So running is your full-time job now. I think when you start playing at a higher level at any age, it's not fun anymore. It becomes, as I say, like a job. Do you have that with running?
It's funny because obviously I love running. I love going out to run. I love feeling fit, and that's the best part of it. Some days, it does feel like it's a job. I mean at the end of the day; it is my job. That's how I make my money. The days that I don't really feel like doing it, or when I’m not very motivated, I just go ‘alright, this is your job. Just get out and do it,’ and you kind of struggle through. At the moment, I know I still love it because the days I'm not very motivated I get out the door and ten minutes into the run I feel fine and I can do the run, no worries. I think once I get to the point where I'm doing weeks of running and not enjoying any of it, that's when you've definitely fallen out of love with it. But I'd say I love running still.
I like that. This next one, I'm not too sure about, but I've heard that you used to be friends with Mark Blicavs. Is that true?
Yeah. Well, he’s my age, and he was a runner until 2012. He was actually in that event with the odds, but he was doing the 1500m, which I raced as well. He was a good runner.
I remember my first ever school nationals I went to, there was a cross country in Queensland, and he was there. He was half a metre taller than everyone, just huge. I think he won or came second. I just remember him from that because he's obviously so tall, so he stands out. We became friends after a bit of racing.
I think it happens a bit, the school that I went to, running is sort of a fitness thing. No one really does it as a winter sport. There are some people, they run well, but they don't pursue it and they go to a different sport instead, like footy. What can you say about that?
Well Mark in particular had a different pathway to footy. I don't think he played much footy as a kid, but he became a talent transfer. I think running though, you do see a lot of footy players doing track sessions when they're at school to keep themselves fit. It's the basis of most sports, so in any way it's going to be beneficial I think.
It's always disappointing for athletics and running as a sport to lose a high-level athlete, but you have to understand it as well. I mean you can make a lot of money in footy, and there's a lot of attraction in it. It’s good if some would stay, but I do understand it.
Do you think there are any young runners that could be the next big thing, or someone that you could co-sign? If you do, let’s hear them. I will say though don’t mention someone like Cam Myers.
One that I think of immediately, but he’s probably too well-known, is Jude Thomas. He's a kid from Queensland, but he’s already at a pretty high level.
What about someone you train with, like Logan Janetzki?
Logan Janetzki, definitely. I'll say Logan, because he’s one that I care about and I train with him. I do think he can be good, but he's in a tough position where he's going to be a long-distance runner. But that takes a few years to develop. Right now, he's about to go into opens. He’s going from being one of the best kids in Australia, to going into opens and being 30-40 seconds behind everyone else over 5km. But if he was a 1500m runner and he’s at the same level, you can keep up for three laps of the race and maybe in the last lap they start to pull away. So Logan, I think is one I’ll give a little cosign.
He didn’t go to college; I think he likes his set up in Melbourne. We’ve got a good group of people to train with. I think a lot of 1500m runners burst on the scene quickly, but Logan I think is going to have a slow grind, where you’re probably looking at five to eight years sort of thing. But he’s a really good runner. I mean he ran a 29:20 in the 10km, which is just crazy. It’s one of the fastest times in history for U20. He broke a few of the records in the APS. He's obviously pretty small, and I think he's just at that age where a few of the other guys have grown a lot and are a bit stronger than him. He ran a great 10km last year, but he was training really hard back then which led to a few injuries. Now he's trying to think more long term, which will help him in the end.
I saw in an interview in 2018 that you were listening to Sleep D at Hopkins Creek 2019 set. Joel asked me to ask you this: did he get you into listening techno music?
Yeah, he did. I'll give it to him. First time I ever saw Sleep D, he took me, and I didn't even know who they were at the time. I hate admitting it, but he definitely has something to do with it.
Joel listens to a different kind of stuff that I listen to. He doesn't even listen to Sleep D that much anymore. He listens to more abstracts stuff, called ‘IDM,’ which stands for ‘Intelligent Dance Music.’ If you’re calling it ‘Intelligent Dance Music,’ you're an idiot. That's why he likes it, because it's just something different. I listen to more of the Melbourne techno.
Was your music taste a bit different, before Joel got you into that? He said he thinks a lot of people’s music taste is influenced by the people around them.
Yeah, definitely. I did listen to some kind of electronic music, and I always have listened to electronic music for most of my life. But living with Joel was probably when he probably influenced me the most. He was just playing music all the time, and he has this huge record collection where I would go through his records a little bit and play stuff. And the people you're around, 100%. We were living with Smac [Sam McEntee] as well, and he decided to get way more into that music. I'll say Melbourne as well. A lot of people in Melbourne listen to this kind of music too, and you can’t help but be influenced by that.
What happened to the Grattan House playlist by the way? Before it was Joel and your monthly selections, but one week it just changed only to Joel.
Everything we do with Grattan House and the podcast, Joel's favourite thing was the playlist, and I just didn’t care about it. So he would be messaging me, and I would go ‘yeah, I’ll get around to it,’ and he would get really pissed off. In the end I just decided that I would pick ten random songs, and that would piss him off even more because I was going it but not putting any care in. I just kept doing it to annoy him, and finally I went, ‘Alright Joel. You can just have it.’
We've got a playlist of our guest selections. Do you have five songs you could give us that you've been listening to, maybe the last week, or some of your favourites of all time?
The first one is ‘Escape Velocity’ by The Chemical Brothers. We'll definitely put a Sleep D song in there- ‘Hydralite,’ by Sleep D. ‘windows breakcore,’ by proloxx. We'll go ‘Implant’ by Reflex Blue. And then we'll put in ‘Brand E’ by the John Frusciante. He's the guitarist from the Red Hot Chili Peppers.
Last question here for you Brett: Any words of wisdom, people to shout, or things to promote?
I think with running wisdom, there’s one quote that I always say. Try to think 26 weeks, instead of 26 days. I think everyone is thinking about what's happening in the next couple of weeks, but if you can change your mindset to be thinking six months ahead and getting to a point in training at a level that's sustainable to that, I think that's the best way to go about it.
I’ll definitely shout out my training partners. They're the best people to have around. I'm lucky they're some of my best mates and people that have the same goals and motivation that I do. Without them, I wouldn't be nowhere near as good. Definitely have to shout them out.
As for things to promote? FTK!
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